Alice, how did you come up with kennel name, Kossok Siberians?

My very first litter was sired by a dog named Cassack of Martha Lake and, being an English teacher, I liked to play with words. So I played, and that’s what I came up with.
 
Where did you get your first Siberian?

That’s a fun story. My very first teaching job when I was fresh out of college, was in a little town on the Oregon Coast called Walport. The first month I was there I rented a converted garage apartment from the Home Ec teacher. She had this just wonderful pure white dog that she told me was a Siberian Husky. I found out that I disliked the Home Ec teacher and the apartment, so after a month I moved out and decided I wanted a dog of my own. I hadn’t had one since I was a kid. There was a sign on the side of the road that said “Siberian Husky Puppies for Sale”. I went up and looked, and there was only one puppy left, a little female, dilute black and white. So I bought her for a whole $50.00 and had to make two payments, I was so broke. She didn’t look anything like Spicy, who I learned later was a Samoyed, but she had blue eyes. So that’s how I got started.

Did you have a mentor?

No, not in Siberians. There wasn’t anybody with them here in Salem when I moved here. But I joined the local kennel club and made friends with some other people with my age and experience. We were all avid about going to dog shows and so on. So I learned from friends with German Shepherds, German Shorthaired Pointers and Miniature Schnauzers. We would all sit around and discuss dogs, read standards, and just really get into movement and structure and all that sort of stuff.

Was there a particular breeder or line of dogs that influenced you?

Well, I bred that initial pet bitch, kept two puppies, finished the male and then discovered it was a dead end when a son of the female developed PRA. Then I acquired a bitch named Kohoutek's Kia of Krisland, who I later finished in the US and Canada. She was from Marlytuk and Savdajaure breeding, linebred on Ch. Marlytuk’s Red Sun of Kiska. I bred her to Am/Can Ch. Innisfree’s Sierra Cinnar. And that’s the been the dominant influence ever since. Everything has pretty much been based on that. I did the breeding a couple of times and ended up with four siblings that I worked with. For a while I bred my Cinnar girls to
Ch. Innisfree's Pegasus sons. And you know, I was kind of following what Kathleen Kanzler was doing in terms of combinations, but with the Marlytuk added in. I think it worked pretty well.  Now as far as breeding at that time: first of all, I was a single school teacher and had no money. There was a Ch. Marlytuk's Red Son of Kiska son that was up in the Spokane area, a lovely group winning dog. I wanted to breed Kia to him and made arrangements with the owner. A couple of weeks before Kia was due in season, I was at a show and saw this woman and said, “I am so excited; I think these are going to be wonderful puppies, and I have deposits for several.” She wanted to know who the deposits were from, so I told her. One of the individuals was someone she didn’t like, so a couple days later I got a note from her saying, “I just don’t think this is going to be a good breeding, so I am not going to make this dog available to you.” I was furious! So I said, “I’ll show her! I'm going to breed to the best dog in the country!” And I marched down to the bank and borrowed $800.00! (laughter) At that time Cinnar's stud fee was $300.00. I shipped Kia off, and 9 weeks later she presented me with eight puppies. If I hadn’t had any puppies I would have been in B-I-G trouble!  But, out of that came my foundation.

When you started your breeding program, what qualities were you looking for in a foundation bitch?

I wanted something with recognizable type. I looked at what was in this area, and there wasn’t anything that I really liked a whole lot. It was kind of a hodge podge. There weren’t really any dominate lines on the West Coast that I had access to. I started out reading the AKC Gazette to see who produced what champions. There was a lady in the local kennel club that had been breeding Chihuahua’s for twenty-some years, who had kept all of her Gazettes for all those years, and she lent them to me. I went through them and started a card file. It became very obvious who was producing the Champions. It was Peggy Grant (Marlytuk), Kathleen Kanzler (Innisfree),the Fosters (Frosty Aire), and Judy Russell (Karnovanda) in terms of consistency and quantity. I had a linebred Marlytuk bitch at this point who I bred to Innisfree, and it just went from there.

Who was your foundation bitch and do you still have dogs that go back to the line in which you originally started with?

Kia was the foundation bitch, and yes, almost everything in the kennel has Kia several times through one of the four Cinnar kids; actually most of them have two or three of the Cinnar offspring. Flower (Ch. Kossok's Good As Gold,) was the best one and best producer, so she was the most influential. The others were AM/Can Ch. Kossok's Buttercup Bouquet,
Ch. Kossok's Kiska of Oakcrest, and Kossok's Favorite Son.

How important is the title CH in a breeding program?

Genetically it doesn’t matter a bit. In terms of prestige and recognition from other people it’s very important. But what’s more important is the dog and what it produces.

Is phenotype more important than pedigree?

I think they are both extremely important. You don’t get consistent phenotype without the pedigree, and granted not every dog looks like it’s ancestors, but it may produce like them. A good example is Susan Parraga's Shasta, (Ch. Kossok's She's Snow Blonde,) who looks very very much, like her great, great, I don’t know how many times grandmother, Kia. She doesn’t look like anything close up in her pedigree, but you know she's recognizable as a Marlytuk style bitch.

Over the years, which dogs or bitches have most influenced your breeding program?

Kia, who was Am/Can Ch. Kohoutek's Kia of Krisland, and Flower, (CH Kossok’s As Good As Gold) and Taffy, (CH Kossok’s Blonde Bombshell.) Those girls were probably the ones I bred and did the most with. I haven't done a lot of breeding with my own boys. My favorites are Cinnar, of course, and my Apache, (Am/Can Ch. Kossok's Patch of Bleu.), his father, Ch. Kaila’s Beau Bleu of Rusojhn, and my Ryan, Int. Ch. Kossok’s Gold Standard.

Currently, who has been your most successful stud dog? If someone were to come to breed to him, what could they expect to get?

My most successful stud dog has been Ryan, Int. Ch. Kossok’s Gold Standard, who has produced wonderful puppies and is the sire of 5 AKC champions with several more close to finishing and several finished in other countries. But his temperament is not real solid.  Some of his offspring, if they do not get enough socialization, are not real solid. He produces beautiful type and beautiful structure. I think he is very correct in almost everything except attitude. A little short in the muzzle but other than that, really nice. He's eleven, and I just had him neutered this spring, so it’s irrelevant. I do have a son of his who has only sired one litter, Can Ch. Kossok's Black Gold (Oreo.) Actually, he is a son and grandson because he's out of a father-daughter accidental breeding.
 
Structurally, have you been able to maintain some consistency in your breeding program?

I think so. I’ve always wanted dogs that were very balanced and fluid in their movement with lots of reach and drive, which means they have well laid back shoulders and good angles front and rear. Proportions have varied over the years but the basic angulation has stayed the same, and I have worked very hard on that.

What traits would you like to keep in the next few generations?

Well, obviously the movement and angles, and I’ve been working on strengthening temperaments after Ryan. I’m trying to keep the good qualities he gave me and breed out the softness. So that’s important. Genetic health is good. That’s important. I have not had a lot of dogs with eye problems or other health problems, and I don’t want them.  I’m working to improve proportion and leg length on some of my dogs.

Which breedings have you done that you are most proud of? And why?

Originally, it was the breeding of Kia and Cinnar. There were three champions out of the two litters, and several others were pointed. The first litter produced Am/Can Ch. Kossok's Buttercup Bouquet and Ch. Kossok's Kiska of Oakcrest. There aren't a lot descendents out of either one, but there a few in my pedigrees. Out of the second breeding two years later I kept CH Kossok’s Good As Gold and a male who didn’t finish, Kossok’s Favorite Son.
Now you asked about Cinnar. When I decided to breed to him he was the #1 dog in the country. And this was when he was doing a lot of his Best In Show winning and had the win record. I didn’t see him in person until the puppies were 6 or 7 months old.  I went back to the National in St. Louis in 1979, and I was literally afraid to see him because I thought nothing could equal my expectations. I’d sit at ring side watching the classes, (this was the first national I had ever been to) and I was overwhelmed by all the lovely dogs!  I’d see these big classes, and I would say, “I like this one, and I like this one, and I like this one.” Then I would look at the catalog, and every one of them was a Cinnar kid. That was consistent in all the classes. They didn’t necessarily all look alike, but they all moved alike, and they all had this really proud look. That was the year that Cinnar won the National and when he walked in the ring he was better than I’d imagined! A lot of it was the charisma. He was so up, and on that day, he just kind of glowed. Not everyone would agree, but that was my impression.

If you had a special, would you like to be credited with owning him or breeding him? You can’t choose both.

Breeding. Anyone who has money can write out a check. Not everyone is smart enough to figure out which dogs go together.

When you want to breed a bitch, what is the criteria in selecting her stud dog?

I look for a dog who has the qualities I think she needs improvement on as well as duplicating her strengths. I like to linebreed because that tends to deepen the genetic strength, but if an unrelated dog has what my bitch needs, I'll use him. Any dog in my breeding program must have sound movement with excellent reach and drive and be well-angulated. Correct type and proportion are very important as well as sound temperament and genetic health. Eye and hip clearances are a must.

In  over 30 years in the breed, which dog or bitch did you own or breed that you were most proud of? And why?

I have several but the one I think is really the best is Flower, Ch. Kossok’s Good As Gold. She was a lovely bitch with pretty much all the qualities I think are important. She had great movement and correct type, was a group winner, and produced eight champions. Her granddaughter, Ch. Kossok’s Blonde Bombshell, Taffy, was very similar and equally good. Apache, Am/Can Ch. Kossok's Patch of Blue, was one of my all time favorites too. He was always happy, always a wonderful, outgoing dog. I didn’t special him. He tended to flip his left front foot. I didn’t have any extra money, and that's never been my interest or priority. You can’t special a dog when you have to be back at school Monday morning, and you are showing over 200 miles away with a six hour drive home.

In going forward in your breeding program, which two Siberians are you most excited about as you go into 2007?

I have a couple of breedings planned for this fall with Ch. Kossok's Living Doll and
Ch. Zuska's Kossok Sorceress. I'm still deciding on possible mates. Plus I'm buying a male puppy whose mother I bred. He's just a baby, and I haven't seen him in person yet, but he looks very promising from the pictures.

SHOR…can you tell me how you got involved and how it came about?

Well, SHOR was started in the late 70’s or early 80’s. CERF had been started up and then it stopped for a while. The Siberian people where really getting concerned about eyes, so they said we need a registry, and so somebody, with the cooperation of the Parent Club, started it up. I think it was David Qualls, although I’m not sure about that. Time went on, someone in California ran it for a while, then when Maryl Foster was President of SHCA, she asked me to take it over. I had it for about 10 years or so. I still think it serves a very important purpose.

Name some of your favorite Siberians of all time.

Am/Can Ch. Innisfree's Sierra Cinnar. Ch. Frosty Aire's Banner Boy. Ch. Frosty Aire's Beau-Tuk Balto, Ch. Marlytuk's Red Sun of Kiska. Those are the old time ones that contributed to the breed. More recently, Ch. Kontoki’s One Mo’ Time, Ch. Karnovanda’s Gray Spirit,
Ch. Kadyak's Ms Kishwin and Ch. Chotovotka's Ms Kitty Russell. They weren’t all alike but they exemplified the breed in a lot of ways.

In your opinion, are we breeding a better dog today than 30 years ago?

Better in some ways; you don’t see the number of short legged, dumpy dogs we had for a long time. I am seeing dogs in some parts of the country whose heads I think are terrible. It was true 30 years ago too but in a different way. Then they were too heavy and blocky; now we are getting a lot of no-stop, ski slope heads. I call them cone heads. They look like they were stuck in a pencil sharpener. It used to be that Siberians were known for their soundness moving up and back. Right now I see a lot of poor rears. Side gait seems about the same. Leg length and proportion are much better now. Breeding seems run on a pendulum. You don’t spend much time in the middle, just moving from one extreme to the other. Like anything else there is a range. There are a few very good ones, and then there is everything else.

Let’s change direction a  little bit and talk about your judging career.  Let’s start with the obvious, why did you decide to become a judge?

Well, for one thing, I didn’t like what a lot of the judges were doing. I didn’t think that they understood what Siberians should be like and I didn’t think they were putting up good quality. I’m a teacher by nature and by trade and that’s one way you teach. Plus I had judged some matches, and I got a really good feeling standing out there in the middle of the ring making all the decisions. It’s a power trip.

Do you think that AKC requires enough education for people that want to become judges?

Yes and no. I am not sure they’re focusing on the right kind of things. They have a better education program than any other country in the world, but it’s possible for people to skim by and do the minimum, just like it is in anything else. It’s depends on the dedication and the interest of the person. So it’s very possible to get a good education in the breed, and it’s also possible to not.

AKC is adopting a Judging Conflict of Interest Policy effective January 1, 2007. AKC states that approved judges should not have a significant interest in another registry that is in direct conflict with AKC or be judging for another event-giving organization. How do you feel about it, and is it something that will affect you?

I think it is terrible, and of course it will affect me. I have had a number of experiences where I judged for rare breed shows, for the international shows, and those would not be allowable according to this policy. I think that is really terrible because I have had an opportunity to get my hands on breeds that I would NEVER be able to anywhere else. You know, we just don’t have that opportunity at AKC shows and even though many new breeds are gaining AKC recognition, you have to have some place to learn initially. It’s also a good place for people to find out about showing and even to be rewarded with titles that are not as expensive and difficult to earn as it is with AKC. So, I think there is a real need for those. I don’t think we have heard the last about that policy. There is a movement amongst the judges groups to challenge it.

Would you say a Breeder Judge is able to evaluate better in the ring than an All Breed judge?

I think it depends on the Breeder Judge and the All Breed judge. There are good judges in both venues and bad ones too. Breeder judges have a more intimate experience with the breed, but they also have prejudices toward people, lines, and/or particular faults. It is hard to be objective in your own breed.

Is it important as a judge to stay current and read the various dog publications?

No. So you can see who is winning…(laughter). No. I have never been accused of not speaking my mind.

When you look at the breed today vs. years ago, would you say politics play a bigger role today?

Yes, because we have a lot more communication. When I started, what was going on in the East Coast or the South or the Mid-West is not something that I knew much about because we didn’t have the internet or breed magazines. There just wasn’t a way to find out what other breeders and exhibitors were doing easily. So people tended to stay in there own backyards. Now, my website gets 50-75 hit’s a day. Some may be interested in looking for puppies, others interested in finding out about the breed, or, like me, they just like to browse other people’s websites to see what they are doing.

Do you think politics have impacted those Siberians that should have been recognized as the best examples of the breed?

I think it has always been there. But again, transportation is easier. People can fly off to shows, people that have money, that is. Because of the nature of the coat it’s harder to special successfully and become really highly ranked nationally because the dogs are out of coat half of the time. At least mine are. So if you are talking #1 or #2 in the Working Group, I don’t think it’s a big deal. But within the breed, yes, and some of the dogs that are the big winners that I can think of today are dogs that I don’t think should have won at all. That’s my own personal opinion. But because the people are advertising and getting them out there and showing them in a very flashy manner, they are winning.

Which Siberians of the past that you have judged did you feel were excellent representations of the breed when you put your hands on them?

Ch. Karnavonda Gray Spirit, Ch. Native’s Moonstruck Memory come to mind. It’s amazing what you can feel when you put your hands on the dog. I judged the British Columbia Specialty six or seven years ago, and there was a male that had done a lot of winning. When he walked in the ring I was impressed with his lovely proportions, lovely head and his movement was ok. Then I got my hands on him. He was totally hollow between his front legs. There was no fore chest. His structure was incorrect. I would have never known that because he was so well groomed. So grooming can really hide a lot of sins or change the appearance, if you are really clever. I am really against the trimming that is going on. That is a flagrant disregard for the breed standard.

How would you rate the overall movement in the ring today?

Mediocre.

What are the most serious faults in the breed today?

It used to be that even if a Siberian couldn’t go anywhere, they were sound coming and going. They just didn’t have any side gait. Actually, I am seeing some better side gait. But the rears are terrible. Dogs that move wide. Dogs that are hocky. Dogs that just aren’t put together right. I am not seeing too many bad fronts in terms at coming at you. But rears, yuck!

What countries have you judged in?

Canada, Hungry, Brazil, Korea twice, Australia and the United States.

How would you say the quality is in compared to the United States?

In most cases, the United States is better. I found nice dogs in those other countries, but not as many percentage wise. I think there have been a lot of exports to those countries, and when breeders are willing to send good dogs, the quality has improved. The first time I judged in Korea there wasn’t much there that was too exciting. I went back a year and a half later, and there were quite a few dogs that were quite nice.

How comfortable are you when an exhibitor wants to know “why her dog did not win”?
 
I am fine. But they have to be willing to take what I say. They shouldn’t be confrontational about it, and that’s true of any judge. But if they truly want to know what I am basing my judgment on, I’ll tell them.

When you have completed a judging assignment, what impression do you want to leave with the people that entered under you?

That I am nice friendly person, that I know a really good dog and the breed standard, and that I care about the dogs.

What are some of the most satisfying moments you've had judging in the ring?

I’ll tell you one that I had very recently. I judged a Samoyed specialty, the first specialty in the States where I judged a breed other than Siberians. I have judged other breeds, just not at a specialty. This one was in Minneapolis. I ended up giving WB/BW to an absolutely scrumptious 6-9 puppy. She was to die for. They had a second specialty the next day judged by Dr. Greathouse, and he gave my puppy Best of Breed. He also placed many of the same ones I did. I just learned that this puppy finished last weekend at another specialty at eight months of age with three 5 point majors, all won at specialties. It’s good to know that somebody else with the reputation of Dr. Greathouse liked the same dogs. It just validated my opinion. That’s rewarding.  Another time, when I judged in Australia, I had 180 dogs and ended up giving Best of Breed to this absolutely gorgeous gray male who turned out to be Ch. Karnovanda’s Gray Spirit. That was pretty thrilling!

I am sure it was.
 
When I judged in Korea the first time, I had this wonderful young gray male puppy that I gave Best Puppy to. When I went back a year and a half later, I had this absolutely gorgeous gray male that I gave Best of Breed to…same dog. It’s exciting to know that he turned out that well! In fact, I tried very hard to work with the owner to bring him over here to show for a couple of years and so I could breed to him. But somewhere along the line, the owner dropped out of the program. I was going to do that at my expense because he was that thrilling.

Have you heard how he did in Korea?

No. I was instant messaging with the translator I’d worked with a couple weeks ago, and he said the guy hadn’t been seen at shows for several months.

It must be wonderful to have traveled the world and enjoyed your passion at the same time.

It is. I feel very honored to have been asked to judge in so many places.

Ok, last question…is there anything you would still like to accomplish in the breed?

Well, I would still like to continue to produce good dogs that meet my expectations and that other people also appreciate. For a long time I had a goal of breeding and/or owning 50 Champions. Well, I have exceeded that now with 54. I guess we are moving that goal up to 60 or more. Other than that, I just would like good health so I can continue to enjoy my dogs.

Alice, it’s been a pleasure. Thanks for sharing with me. I have enjoyed it. 

Hometown:  Salem, Oregon...Years In Siberians:  38...Years as a Judge:  11...Champions Bred:  50

www.kossok.com

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